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Angle Shooting in Live Poker

By DonkyKong
Mar 10, 09 03:09 AM

First of all, I'm very anti angling, it's just not my style and in my opinion destroys the integrity of the game, but I don't mind sharing some things I've seen or experienced in live play over the years that will hopefully protect you from people who try to pull these on you. It's next to impossible to Angle online, but if you are playing live, be aware, and when in doubt call a floor person to sort things out.

So what is Angle Shooting? Here is a definition from pokernews.

Using unfair tactics.
Usage: A poker player who uses various underhanded, unfair methods to take advantage of inexperienced opponents. The difference between an angle shooter and a cheat is only a matter of degree. What a cheat or thief does is patently against the rules; what an angle shooter does may be marginally legal, but it's neither ethical nor gentlemanly. Nor is it in the spirit of the game. ...In addition to learning how to protect yourself against cheating players, you must learn to watch out for the angle shooters.

Angle Shooting is NOT table talk. Things like "Do you want me to call? " or other prying questions are not considered angle shooting.

Here are some different types of Angles I've run across.

Intentionally Misrepresenting a hand.

This angle involves someone verbally saying they have something stronger than they do in an effort to get you to fold. Most casinos don't allow you to talk about the hand while it is in progress. This is a common angle because the 'intent' is impossible to prove.

Example: After the river all the betting is complete, there is a four diamonds on the board and you have top set. You show and say "do you have a flush". The angler says "yes" . You muck your hand and he turns over two hearts and says "oops, I thought I had a diamond". He gets the pot.

Avoidance: Never release your cards until you are shipped the pot. Ever.

Acting out of Turn

This angle involves a player making an action out of turn to influence action that has yet to act before him.

Example: On the flop, seat 1 is first to act. You are in seat 2 with a draw. Seat three is Angler. Seat 1 bets, and while you are still thinking, seat 3 (Angler) says "Raise!" out of turn, causing you to fold. Seat 3 then just calls. Even if someone says he is bound to raise at least the minimum you still get screwed because your hand is in the muck.

Avoidance: Call the floor. The Angler should be given a warning and kicked out if he keeps doing it.

Obscure gestures and words.

This angle involves a player making betting/checking motions or phrases that are obscure, out of context or non standard, with the intention of gaining additional information, or causing other players to react. This can occur because with live poker there are a lot of phrases and motions that are assumed to mean check or bet by the other players and dealer.

Example: It's 5 way on the river. Angler is in Position 4. Action quickly goes check, check, check, dealer looks at angler who gives a quick nod that is interpreted as a check also. Position five checks. Anglers sees that everyone checked and announces "I never acted!" I'm all in!" The dealer says she saw him nod, the Angler says he was bobbing to the music.

Avoidance: Confirm the action with the dealer before making your move. Just ask "Was that a check" if you suspect something. Otherwise a quick elbow to the back of his head on your way to the restroom should cure that head bobbing. ;)

Binding Action Abuse

This angle is a little bit of a reverse of the last one. To prevent obscurity, cardrooms have rules stating that "verbal is binding", or certain actions, like tapping the table is a check. Angle shooters can abuse this rule against you.

Example: You are in a live tournament hand in the big blind and as the action is folded around to you, you are telling another player a bad beat story where you went "All In" and lost. The Angler in the big blind says, "Call!!!" and turns over pocket Aces. The angler argues that you uttered "All In" which induced him to act, constituting 2 actions, the dealer forces you to put all your chips in the middle with 10-3 and you are done. Sounds ridiculous but I've seen it happen.

Avoidance: Watch what you say and do. And don't play the air drums unless you are gonna check. Intent is difficult to prove and even harder to defend.

Obscure Chip Play

This angle involves physical moves with chips to gain an advantage over an opponent. This angle abuses string bet rules and betting lines on tables, because these precautions are loosely enforced and vary from room to room.

Example 1: Angler takes a stack of 20 chips, and sloppily drops 5 of them into the betting area, then in a separate motion drops in the other 20, to get a read on his opponents reaction. The dealer says it's a string bet and he can only bet the 5 chips. The angler gets some information without paying the price.
Another example would be if you bet and the angler says "I call that bet and I raise you all in" full knowing that that phrase is only a call because it's a string raise to verbally say "call and raise". You think he meant to go all in so you check the next street and he checks behind you and hits his draw for free on the river. Also, because in some rooms, only a player can announce a string bet, the angler can see who is complaining and therefore more information. I call this a 'reverse-string-bet' or 'intentional-string.

Avoidance 1: Some rooms are setup so that only a player can call a string bet. Therefore if his string bet favors you (you have the nuts) don't call him on it, and encourage other players to do the same. Then spit in his drink when he's not looking.

Example 2: An angler takes a stack of 20 chips out and places them like a bet in front of his cards but behind a betting line assuming there is one on the table. You call and the angler claims that it wasn't a bet on his part. Or if there is no betting line, an angler might cut out stack and then raise it up as if he is going to put it in the middle and then pull it back before it touches the table like a pump fake, trying to get you to bite.

Avoidance 2: Again don't do anything until you confirm the action is complete and on you. Also clarify the rules at the room you are playing in because they vary greatly. Some rooms have strict betting lines, and some have 'virtual' betting lines. Some even have betting lines that don't mean anything. Some say any chips in front of your cards are considered a bet, even if you are just counting out chips and thinking. Some say forward motion is a bet. Some say anything you have in your hand that you move forward in must be included in a bet, meaning if you pick up a stack of 20 to cut out 8 chips you have to put the whole 20 in the pot. Be aware of the rules at that particular room.

Mucked Hand Angle

This angle is where a player bets, the angler folds in an obscure manner without releasing his cards, the player mucks his hand awaiting the pot and the angler, because he is the only one holding cards, stakes claim to the pot. This one is rare and requires a dealer/table not paying much attention.

Example: It's heads up on the flop. You continuation bet, and the angler says "you win, or you got it, nice hand" , making a motion to fold the hand. You toss your hand in the muck as he is conceding. He snatches his hand up that never touched the muck and says, "Hey, I never said I folded!, you're hand is dead, it touched the muck!" Real dirty..

Avoidance: This should be obvious. Never ever release until you've got the pot. But if it does happen, a swift knee to his groin might be in order. One cheap shots deserves another.

Two Cards to Win

This angle is another cheap one. Basically an angler lays claim to a split pot because you only showed one card. It is an abuse of the rule that states a player must show two cards to receive a pot.
Example: You have AQ and the Angler has A2. After the river the board reads AAKK5, giving you both Aces full of Kings. He tables A2 and says "If you got an ace just show me because it's a chop. You flash just your ace to the dealer, who proceeds to chop the pot. After she is done chopping the pot you throw your hand in the muck assuming that you showed your hand to the dealer, but the angler says "Two cards to win, you only had one" The dealer confirms the rule and you lose the entire pot the the cheap shot angler.
Avoidance: Well, by this time, your knee, his groin...... nice hand........vnh. Or just don't release your hand until you've got the chips.

So these are some angle shots I've seen over the years. Ironically, a lot of angles are abusing rules that are supposed to protect players from angles. I'm writing this because there may be some members that are new to live play and need to protect themselves from the scummy dirty angle shooters. You don't see it often, and some people don't even realize they are being unethical. Like a ref says to the fighters before the opening bell, "Keep the low blows to a minimum and protect yourself at all times"

Donkey Kong
www.drcheckraise.com


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COMMENTS

POSTED BY:
eagle0468

Mar 13, 09 06:03 PM

Great article DK, and I have an angle story for you as well. I was playing in my first 2-5 no limit hold em game, so I was just a bit nervous. I had Q-8 of hearts and great position. The flop came heart, heart, offsuit. I bet out a 2xBB bet and successfully pushed out all but one caller. The turn came another heart and I bet out enough to push the caller in with half her stack, which she called with. With an offsuit on the river I was surprised that she went all in when I checked. But sin

POSTED BY:
eagle0468

Mar 15, 09 10:10 AM

continuing with my story.
But since I had her covered I called her all in. Now here is her angle. When she turned her cards over, the only card that showed was the ace of hearts. A bit disgusted with myself I mucked my nut flush. She then showed a little spade underneath. Needless to say, I was livid, but embarrassed I made such a donk move. But, I also knew her play was borderline and called a floor manager.

POSTED BY:
eagle0468

Mar 15, 09 10:12 AM

This kind of made her made at me, and too my advantage I was able to catch her on another silly draw bluff all in and take her chips, well my chips. Not all of these stories have a happy ending. I'm glad mine did.

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