This will be an interesting discussion. Good poker can be played at all levels & not exclusive to ONLY high stakes games. A good poker player can adjust to the game he/she is in. I have seen people write that they play every game like it was a WSOP event. Well that is bad poker, you must adjust to the game & WSOP events are played differently than Freerolls, cash games are played & approached from different prespectives by millionaires than someone who makes $12 an hour.

Personally I think you will find that people like Andrew, Dan, &Chill, all have great records would do just fine playing against some people who you know as pros. I've watched them adjust their game according the event as well as ajust to the table they are at, & even adjust to the player that is in the hand with them. There are pros out there earning a living playing poker. Most of them you have never heard of & never will. The level of the game doesn't make the player.

Hi Doc, thanks for your response and I understand what you're saying and respect that some people on here know how to play the game. My point is just really targeted at the elitist SC players on here who never delved outside of the site and have only had success on here.
(cont.)

(cont.)

I just don't think you can compare playing what is essentially a freeroll to high stakes poker. I think it's like equating a good tee ball player to a major league baseball player, more in the sense of being brave enough to stand at the plate and face a pitcher throwing a 100 MPH fastball. You've gotta be somewhat fearless to do that, just like you have to be fearless in high stakes poker to play good solid high stakes poker.

(cont).
Again, my point isn't that no one here has that skill-set or potential. It's just that if you never leave this kiddie pool' you'll never know what you're really capable of.

I agree with your posting, and I also agree with Doc that there are good players here. I often wonder why some of the good players continue to spend (waste) their time at SC. I know good practice time, but why not try to win real money? Play at SC is nothing like real tourneys. The first half of most tourneys have bad players throwing chips around. I don't play much outside of SC, but I do watch alot and there are some 'good' players here who wouldn't have a chance elsewhere.

I will also have to come up with a blog for this. I back the Doc. I won't try to explain it all here. You do realize that some of the players here also play many live games, right? What do you consider high stakes? Read Frank Weizes articles. Believe me I will rant on this one. I know the message you are trying to send but if the community wants to compare their quality of play HERE, why say they can't play in the real world. Thanks, I needed some inspiration.

As a summarization, I see these points being made:
1 There are good players here who like the SC setup for various reasons and continue to stick around.
2 Some of the good players should realize that to take their play to the next level (at least online), they need to move outside of SC.
.
If I knew of some of the good players taking their play outside SC, I would definitely follow their play. Heck, if I had the money, I would stake them myself.

Interesting! I play here because there ARE some good players to figure out and because there are so many SC types in live tournements that I need to practice finding, trapping and whenever possible felting the free-roll hybrids.
I'm very carefull to play the game I'm IN and not let my free-roll tendencies influence my live tournament game. You are correct in that a great adjuster is a better player. SC style doesn't hold up outside here, but the players most certainly may.

I don't think you could do really well here AND suck at poker. I don't think that winning the monthly is a guarantee that you are very good either, but you may well be.
I don't look at badges or hands played, because it doesn't tell me much, except you have more free time than I do - maybe.
I think you play the game, the table, the players and the hand that is before you. They are all different and your job is to translate each situation into a profit and learn something every day.
TheSypho

Thanks for your responses and I respect your opinions and I knew some of you would take what I said the wrong way. So of you got what I was saying though and took it for what it is.

I actually don't think Jon really read what I wrote. I think the rest of you did though.

Jon try reading the last paragraph of my blog again. If it doesn't sink in, try reading it several times.

Oh I can read. And maybe I'm reading between the lines too much. I fully agree with some of it, hence ny don't quit your day job blog. But sending this message in a way that says your accomplishments don't count towards greatness upset me. I feel your pain in this, but there is another blogger who I am aiming at in my own blog.

I just hate whe npeople say "don't think your that good"

MAybe it a personal thing. yes increasing the risk does change the game. I do better to a certain point, then my quality of play decreases. There are many players here that are top players, give them that.

Should they go pro? totally different story

So me real problem simply comes down to the statement: The real measure of a GREAT poker player CANNOT be formulated on a site like this because they are risking nothing of any real value on here. One of the major things that separate a great player from a good one is their lack of fear when it comes to playing in a high stake poker game.

The whole reason I play here is to help overcome the fear and build confidence. I risk time doing it. Many other players have come out of their shells here. Once you get on the table, the buy in is gone. Its the situations I fear, not the money. This site lets me get past them, without costing a cent. I can save a ton by learning here rather than my ego making pay to learn the same leasons.

Great point THeSyphon, that's pretty much what I was getting at and I think we're on the same page. I definitely adjust my game on here and I play a cash game or MTT with a decent sized-buyin much differently than I do on here. I'm definitely fearless on this site, wish I could say the same in the real deals, but I have had a few moments.

I am being overly aggresive here and for that you get my apolagy and can crown me with the boob award. You are getting the brunt of my frustration with players talking down to others. your message maybe have been a little hazy, due to the bias I am feeling over the Bellagio. So let me try to sort it out to explain why this put me over the edge. Until then ignore it, I can blog an apolagy, (even if I can't spell it) but lets me sort out my thoughts.

there are many good players here and the same goes for all sites and casinos and cardrooms for that matter.playing thousands of hands makes you better it doesnt matter where you play them..
fugly makes a good point about lookin down the gunbarrel and playin a big hand for real money..there is a difference at sites like this where there is no threat of a real hit to your actual r/l bankroll here so that changes the dynamic of the game somewhat..i c the point but still think good players come thr

I know now where I got confused, I mixed up your "message" here with the comments you left on sealedtights blog, only you had the aggresion there. I revoke my boob status, I'll keep sorting it out

you will never see top online players player here like durrrr or omgclayaiken, i like to see players like chillshot in the sunday millions on pokerstars and see what they could do.

I have writen many blogs on same subject. Great job and totally right on the money. That is, if you ain't risking any money, you ain't proving nothing. And, I am not talking about big money. Just risking something but long hours.

very nice blog and ur pretty close to right on the money, I also agree with several comments here. I want to comment about egos here, Ive played other sites and run into some who really have big heads but this site is really something. I think there are a few factors that that cause this to happen. the community, badges, spoy, and stats. personally i think its great and it adds to the competition. It also affects the play and thats good too. all that matters tho is how well u do in the end.

How do you define a good player? There are old boys in casinos making 100k a year, every single year of their lives without fail - in cash games. They'll will pick up your tells as quick as any pro on the planet. But they wouldn't call Phil Ivey with J9 if they put his raise on 84 off suit - he doesn't pay their salary. There are pros that win million dollar tourneys and take pots of 200k online - and then they go broke for 2 years struggling to pay the mortgage and the taxman......

....There are some excellent players on SC who don't have the bankroll or the commitment free lifestyle to risk their cash in deep waters (but they should, and probably do, follow HP's advice and at least enter the pool at the shallow end). Watch those 6 handed tv tables where 1 seat is for an internet qualifier (win a freeroll, a qualifier and a final beating hundreds of top notch players in the process) - and the internet kid is suddenly a fish who thinks QJ is a premium. Depends, depends, dep

....There are some excellent players on SC who don't have the bankroll or the commitment free lifestyle to risk their cash in deep waters (but they should, and probably do, follow HP's advice and at least enter the pool at the shallow end). Watch those 6 handed tv tables where 1 seat is for an internet qualifier (win a freeroll, a qualifier and a final beating hundreds of top notch players in the process) - and the internet kid is suddenly a fish who thinks QJ is a premium. Depends, depends, dep

I agree with the post. Cash is King and sends the peasents on their way.
I play here for one reason afordable entertainment.
SPOY points mean squat other than you probably don't have a real job or a girl friend. Slide away from the screen and enjoy the day.

Just read my Quote: I'm not LUCKY I"m just BETTER than you! That goes out to those who think that there are not any good players here. Why are you here??? And as for no real job or girl buddy, I'm married and work a job that i make 70k a year and own my own business, so your theory is WRONG!!! There are good players here and we each have our reasons for being here, if you don't like it I'm sure we wont miss you. Feel free to write to my profile and comment, SC is a great site to hone or tes

Just read my Quote: I'm not LUCKY I"m just BETTER than you! That goes out to those who think that there are not any good players here. Why are you here??? And as for no real job or girl buddy, I'm married and work a job that i make 70k a year and own my own business, so your theory is WRONG!!! There are good players here and we each have our reasons for being here, if you don't like it I'm sure we wont miss you. Feel free to write to my profile and comment, SC is a great site to hone or tes

or test your skills/ plays, low risk with a reward(how can you go wrong). P.S. I am not a pro but, I still will take your chips!

JD, were those comments directed at me? If so I find that kinda comical as you're addressing comments made by GWL666, not me. I think you should leave those hostile comments for him, not me.

Everything you wrote had nothing to do with my blog or the comments I made. Did you actually read my blog?

I never said there were no good players here. And I also said this was a good site to hone your skills and prepare for deeper waters, that was the point of my blog.

I'm not denying that some people know how to play and I do consistently see some of the better players going deep on a regular basis. And there are probably at least 50 or so I these really good players. My comment was directed at some of other guys who play bingo allin poker in the later night turbos with 100 people until they get lucky and win. They make only have like 5k hands and 20 final table and 7 trophies, but they still don't have any real game...

My other point was there is a major difference better a good and great player, and if you're a 'GREAT' player on this site who hasn't gone out of your comfort zone and played poker online for decent stake or live and had some success doing so, then I don't think you can define yourself as a GREAT poker player. You may be, but you just haven't proven it yet. But you are still a 'GREAT' player here on SC. Someone else wrote a blog about how some players are great at different types of poker...

(cont.) and I agree with that guys blog. Some people can only play ring games, some only do good in MTTs, some sngs, some only can play online, some can play live, and a rare few can do several if not all. And some many only have success when they're is nothing of value at stake. Not everyone is cut out for high stakes poker is my point. And if you're taking my comments too personal you may be one of those people.

And HotPauko was right on the mark when he summed up what I was saying. I'm glad some of you got what my point was:

"2 Some of the good players should realize that to take their play to the next level (at least online), they need to move outside of SC. "